並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep15-%E5%BC%B7%E8%80%85%E6%88%91%E6%9C%8B%E5%8F%8B-%E7%8F%BE%E5%9C%A8%E8%A0%BB%E9%96%8B%E5%BF%83%E5%8F%AF%E4%BB%A5%E5%81%9A%E6%88%91%E8%A9%B2%E5%81%9A%E7%9A%84%E4%BA%8B%E6%83%85-by-%E5%89%B5%E6%A5%AD%E5%9B%9B%E6%AC%A1%E7%9A%84%E7%94%B7%E4%BA%BA-%E8%BB%8A%E9%BA%BB%E5%90%89-%E5%89%B5%E8%BE%A6%E4%BA%BA-ronald-%E4%BD%99%E8%87%B4%E7%B7%AF/id1493256830?i=1000471246856
