並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep115-%E5%8F%B0%E7%81%A3%E5%9F%BA%E6%94%B9%E8%B1%86-%E5%8F%B0%E8%BE%B2%E4%B8%80%E8%99%9F-%E5%83%B9%E6%A0%BC%E8%88%87%E8%B1%86%E5%AD%90%E7%AD%89%E7%B4%9A%E7%9A%84%E9%97%9C%E4%BF%82/id1527513668?i=1000540264172