並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep389-%E5%90%B3%E6%B7%A1%E5%A6%82%EF%BD%98%E6%B1%9F%E6%B9%96%E4%BA%BA%E7%A8%B1s%E5%A7%90x-%E8%B9%A6%E8%B7%B3%E6%96%B0%E5%8A%A0%E5%9D%A1elsa-%E7%94%A8%E9%BB%9E%E5%AD%90%E5%89%B5%E6%A5%AD-%E6%9C%89%E5%AF%A6%E5%8A%9B%E5%B0%B1%E4%B8%8D%E8%A6%81%E6%80%95%E8%87%AA%E5%B7%B1%E5%A4%AA%E5%B9%B4%E8%BC%95/id1536242998?i=1000541285014