並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep120-%E5%92%96%E5%95%A1%E7%94%9F%E8%B1%86%E5%A4%A7%E6%BC%B2%E4%B8%8D%E6%98%AF%E5%9B%A0%E7%82%BA%E7%96%AB%E6%83%85%E6%88%B0%E7%88%AD-%E6%AF%94%E9%80%9A%E8%86%A8%E6%9B%B4%E5%8F%AF%E6%80%95%E7%9A%84%E8%9D%B4%E8%9D%B6%E6%95%88%E6%87%89-%E8%A7%A3%E8%AE%80-%E7%AC%AC%E5%9B%9B%E6%B3%A2%E7%B2%BE%E5%93%81%E5%92%96%E5%95%A1%E5%AD%B8/id1531080433?i=1000568810692